Vote for why you think it jumped
Can't Jump
Series Seven
Rimmer leaves through Series Seven
Same Character, Different Actor (Kochnaski)
Series Eight
Shark Bytes
Red Dwarf went through 5 distinct eras:
SERIES 1-2:
The first 2 series of the show were mostly about getting to know the characters. You had Lister, a slobby low-level crew member. You had Rimmer, an annoying man with high ambitions. Then you had Cat, with his craziness. Finally, you had Holly, a computer who thought he had an IQ of 6,000. All these completely different characters just somehow fit perfectly together in a comedy show.
SERIES 3-5:
Several changes were made here. First, they added Kryten as a regular cast member. This Kryten was significantly improved and better-delivered than his appearence in Series 2. Cat was toned down to try to integrate him better with Rimmer and Lister, but he remained weird and it still worked. Holly became female, but that really didn't seem to affect the series. Writing continued to be good throughout this era, and the strange, weird plots were just brilliant. The episode with Dwayne Dibbley is my all-time favorite episode. It was great!
SERIES 6:
Many things changed in Series 6. First off, they "lost" Red Dwarf. Now, how can you have a show called "Red Dwarf", without Red Dwarf being in it? This was an unnecessary change on the writer's part, which also required the removal of Holly. Although you never really did pay much attention to Holly in the preceeding episodes, he/she really did add a lot to the show. The show was really limited in what they could do in this season, as the crew were stuck on StarBug the whole time. It became repetitive, especially at the beginning of each episode. This series was still excellent, but it wasn't quite as consistantly good as the preceeding episodes. It began the downfall of Red Dwarf, which lead to...
SERIES 7
The worst series of Red Dwarf was definitely Series 7. It was terrible! Rimmer became Ace Rimmer early on in the season. That just doesn't make sense! Ace Rimmer is supposed to be the total opposite of Rimmer, yet Rimmer actually becomes him?! They replace Rimmer with an alternate version of Kochanski, and she just wasn't even close to as good as Rimmer. You never really find out how much you need Rimmer, until you lose him. To further emphasize this, "The Rimmer Experience" was the only funny thing in the entire series. Anyway, Kryten changed for the worse. He became this whiney jellous robot who wants to keep Lister away from Kochanski. The whining was just totally unbearable to me. The writing was absolutely awful in this series, probably because of the removal of Rob Grant. Finally, the live audience used previously was replaced with a fake laugh track. This was, by far, Red Dwarf's lowest point.
SERIES 8:
This series was significantly better than the preceeding series, though it wasn't even close to as good as the older stuff. In Series 8, the Red Dwarf crew were resurrected. This changed the whole premise of the show. Now Red Dwarf was about the main characters' interactions with Captain Hollister and the rest of the crew. Rimmer was restored, but not as the developed Rimmer seen previously, but as a new resurrected Rimmer, who never existed in the previous episodes. He never had all the experiences the old Rimmer did. Of course, this was the only way the writers could restore the much-needed Rimmer. Writing did get better, though Kryten was still whiney. There was nothing really great about this series, and it ended with an unresolved cliffhanger.
SERIES 1-2:
The first 2 series of the show were mostly about getting to know the characters. You had Lister, a slobby low-level crew member. You had Rimmer, an annoying man with high ambitions. Then you had Cat, with his craziness. Finally, you had Holly, a computer who thought he had an IQ of 6,000. All these completely different characters just somehow fit perfectly together in a comedy show.
SERIES 3-5:
Several changes were made here. First, they added Kryten as a regular cast member. This Kryten was significantly improved and better-delivered than his appearence in Series 2. Cat was toned down to try to integrate him better with Rimmer and Lister, but he remained weird and it still worked. Holly became female, but that really didn't seem to affect the series. Writing continued to be good throughout this era, and the strange, weird plots were just brilliant. The episode with Dwayne Dibbley is my all-time favorite episode. It was great!
SERIES 6:
Many things changed in Series 6. First off, they "lost" Red Dwarf. Now, how can you have a show called "Red Dwarf", without Red Dwarf being in it? This was an unnecessary change on the writer's part, which also required the removal of Holly. Although you never really did pay much attention to Holly in the preceeding episodes, he/she really did add a lot to the show. The show was really limited in what they could do in this season, as the crew were stuck on StarBug the whole time. It became repetitive, especially at the beginning of each episode. This series was still excellent, but it wasn't quite as consistantly good as the preceeding episodes. It began the downfall of Red Dwarf, which lead to...
SERIES 7
The worst series of Red Dwarf was definitely Series 7. It was terrible! Rimmer became Ace Rimmer early on in the season. That just doesn't make sense! Ace Rimmer is supposed to be the total opposite of Rimmer, yet Rimmer actually becomes him?! They replace Rimmer with an alternate version of Kochanski, and she just wasn't even close to as good as Rimmer. You never really find out how much you need Rimmer, until you lose him. To further emphasize this, "The Rimmer Experience" was the only funny thing in the entire series. Anyway, Kryten changed for the worse. He became this whiney jellous robot who wants to keep Lister away from Kochanski. The whining was just totally unbearable to me. The writing was absolutely awful in this series, probably because of the removal of Rob Grant. Finally, the live audience used previously was replaced with a fake laugh track. This was, by far, Red Dwarf's lowest point.
SERIES 8:
This series was significantly better than the preceeding series, though it wasn't even close to as good as the older stuff. In Series 8, the Red Dwarf crew were resurrected. This changed the whole premise of the show. Now Red Dwarf was about the main characters' interactions with Captain Hollister and the rest of the crew. Rimmer was restored, but not as the developed Rimmer seen previously, but as a new resurrected Rimmer, who never existed in the previous episodes. He never had all the experiences the old Rimmer did. Of course, this was the only way the writers could restore the much-needed Rimmer. Writing did get better, though Kryten was still whiney. There was nothing really great about this series, and it ended with an unresolved cliffhanger.
Although there are things I don't like (see other comments), the one thing that bothers me about this show is that the Cat becomes a Cat in name only. He loses all he was in the beginning. His dress is rather...weird, instead of highly formal, he speaks as if he had the same background as Lister (British male) instead of a species that evolved on Red Dwarf, and he acts differently as well.
I don't think the show itself "jumped the shark", as it was often enjoyable, but it changed a lot, and perhaps lost site of the original point.
I don't think the show itself "jumped the shark", as it was often enjoyable, but it changed a lot, and perhaps lost site of the original point.
Well, there is no way that this show really jumped the shark. I know people have thrown out Tikka to Ride as possibly being that episode that was jumping like no tomorrow.
I think Season VIII was an upgrade over VII. I know small red ones out there that would call it sacrilige, but if you look back at VIII you see the return of Rimmer, the slimy, backstabbing, incompentent Rimmer we all enjoyed. The ep arcs were so badly needed.
I think they screwed up with Hollister, because if you look back on his cameos in season 1 he didn't come across as being the small-minded git that he was played as during season VIII.
I think Season VIII was an upgrade over VII. I know small red ones out there that would call it sacrilige, but if you look back at VIII you see the return of Rimmer, the slimy, backstabbing, incompentent Rimmer we all enjoyed. The ep arcs were so badly needed.
I think they screwed up with Hollister, because if you look back on his cameos in season 1 he didn't come across as being the small-minded git that he was played as during season VIII.
Wow! I always figured RD went south at Season 3, let alone 7/8. While there were good episodes after this (luck virus, holoship etc), season 3 is where characters start becoming 2 dimensional and the scripts heavily rely on running away from alien x, y, z until the last five minutes when Kryten's quick thinking and Listers courage / luck saved the day.
The first three series were lovely to watch and to see the characters develop. The wobbly sets were part of the charm. Series 4-6 saw a decline in quality yet episodes were still watchable. An acceptable plateau had been reached.
Series 7 was frustrating. The format was wrong, the film look betrayed the show's ethos and the canned laughter was awful.
Series 8 was even worse. I am ploughing through it now because I feel obliged to reach the end. It's like watching Terry and June in outer space. The gags are weak, the characters, the characters are one dimensional gag-props. The captain is just bloody awful and the original cast that we knew and loved are just there delivering the awful script. These 2 series really should have never been but I suppose the producers didn't have the benefit of hindsight.
I think I'll watch series one again
Series 7 was frustrating. The format was wrong, the film look betrayed the show's ethos and the canned laughter was awful.
Series 8 was even worse. I am ploughing through it now because I feel obliged to reach the end. It's like watching Terry and June in outer space. The gags are weak, the characters, the characters are one dimensional gag-props. The captain is just bloody awful and the original cast that we knew and loved are just there delivering the awful script. These 2 series really should have never been but I suppose the producers didn't have the benefit of hindsight.
I think I'll watch series one again
It still amazes me to this day how hard and how fast Red Dwarf fell into the toilet in the span of Series 7 & 8.
And I still wonder to this day whose bright idea it was to take what had firmly been a C-O-M-E-D-Y for six series, and weigh it down with serious sci-fi and serious drama to the point where the comedy felt like an ackward veneer.
That the comedy in question had devolved into excruciatingly lame jokes and sight-gags didn't help matters, either. Lister and Rimmer getting their clothes disintegrated while Benny Hill music plays? Really? If that isn't forced comedy, then I don't know what is.
Speaking of Rimmer, the moment Chris Barrie left was the point where the show went utterly balls-up, but I don't think it was necessarily BECAUSE he left. It was the way he left that was the problem.
Rimmer. Becoming the next Ace Rimmer.
Think about that for a minute. Ace Rimmer's entire gimmick was that he's Arnold Judas Rimmer's complete and total opposite number. He's literally Alternate Dimension Rimmer. So how do they decide to write Rimmer out of the show? Why, he takes up Ace's mantle, of course!
WHAT!?
From that moment on, the floodgates were open. Dwarf was done for. Not only did Ace's death and the revelation that he was part of an ubelievably long lineage of tragic saviors-of-the-universe usher in the horrible serious sci-fi/drama elements that dragged everything down to the dirt, it also set the precedent for the crew acting completely out of character.
Hello, Dave "MUST...BE...MATURE!" Lister. Hello, whiney neurotic Kryten. Hello, one dimensional barely-there Cat. Good lord, by Series 8 even Chloe Annett's incarnation of Kochanksi was acting out of character! And she'd only been introduced in Series 7!
And Series 8... Oh my God. They had to catch up with the Red Dwarf sooner or later, but resurrecting the entire crew!? I'm sorry, but throwing the characters on a ship with hundreds of other people, the same people who all died in the very first episode for the purpose of setting up the show's entire plot, makes me question if the writers were on hard drugs at that point.
Then, of course, you had the newly resurrected Rimmer. Not the same Rimmer we grew to know(and perhaps hesitantly love) over the span of about 35 and a half episodes, we had the original flesh-and-blood Rimmer who bit the dust halfway into the debut of Red Dwarf. All the hilarious perils, and all the character development A.J. Rimmer had from series 1 to 6? Forget it. Here, we painted ourselves into a corner with Stoke Me a Clipper, so have this version of Rimmer from the very beginning. Back to square one as if nothing ever happened. To top it off, let's destroy the Red Dwarf in the cliffhanger finale as if we realized much too late this whole thing was a mistake!
Watching Series 7 & 8 was like watching bad fanfiction come to life. The only good thing I can think of that came from Red Dwarf lasting beyond Series 6 is Can't Smeg Won't Smeg, but that's offset by how terribly 7 & 8 stank. I'd gladly give up CSWS if it meant they never existed, quite frankly. Someone said it's "zealot fan baggage" that makes people dislike the last two series, but I'd say it's overzealous fandom that makes people think the last two series somehow stand out from 95% percent of the usual crap on television. And considering how brilliant and stand-out Red Dwarf was for 6 series, that's a really sad shame.
And I still wonder to this day whose bright idea it was to take what had firmly been a C-O-M-E-D-Y for six series, and weigh it down with serious sci-fi and serious drama to the point where the comedy felt like an ackward veneer.
That the comedy in question had devolved into excruciatingly lame jokes and sight-gags didn't help matters, either. Lister and Rimmer getting their clothes disintegrated while Benny Hill music plays? Really? If that isn't forced comedy, then I don't know what is.
Speaking of Rimmer, the moment Chris Barrie left was the point where the show went utterly balls-up, but I don't think it was necessarily BECAUSE he left. It was the way he left that was the problem.
Rimmer. Becoming the next Ace Rimmer.
Think about that for a minute. Ace Rimmer's entire gimmick was that he's Arnold Judas Rimmer's complete and total opposite number. He's literally Alternate Dimension Rimmer. So how do they decide to write Rimmer out of the show? Why, he takes up Ace's mantle, of course!
WHAT!?
From that moment on, the floodgates were open. Dwarf was done for. Not only did Ace's death and the revelation that he was part of an ubelievably long lineage of tragic saviors-of-the-universe usher in the horrible serious sci-fi/drama elements that dragged everything down to the dirt, it also set the precedent for the crew acting completely out of character.
Hello, Dave "MUST...BE...MATURE!" Lister. Hello, whiney neurotic Kryten. Hello, one dimensional barely-there Cat. Good lord, by Series 8 even Chloe Annett's incarnation of Kochanksi was acting out of character! And she'd only been introduced in Series 7!
And Series 8... Oh my God. They had to catch up with the Red Dwarf sooner or later, but resurrecting the entire crew!? I'm sorry, but throwing the characters on a ship with hundreds of other people, the same people who all died in the very first episode for the purpose of setting up the show's entire plot, makes me question if the writers were on hard drugs at that point.
Then, of course, you had the newly resurrected Rimmer. Not the same Rimmer we grew to know(and perhaps hesitantly love) over the span of about 35 and a half episodes, we had the original flesh-and-blood Rimmer who bit the dust halfway into the debut of Red Dwarf. All the hilarious perils, and all the character development A.J. Rimmer had from series 1 to 6? Forget it. Here, we painted ourselves into a corner with Stoke Me a Clipper, so have this version of Rimmer from the very beginning. Back to square one as if nothing ever happened. To top it off, let's destroy the Red Dwarf in the cliffhanger finale as if we realized much too late this whole thing was a mistake!
Watching Series 7 & 8 was like watching bad fanfiction come to life. The only good thing I can think of that came from Red Dwarf lasting beyond Series 6 is Can't Smeg Won't Smeg, but that's offset by how terribly 7 & 8 stank. I'd gladly give up CSWS if it meant they never existed, quite frankly. Someone said it's "zealot fan baggage" that makes people dislike the last two series, but I'd say it's overzealous fandom that makes people think the last two series somehow stand out from 95% percent of the usual crap on television. And considering how brilliant and stand-out Red Dwarf was for 6 series, that's a really sad shame.
UP UNTIL JUST A FEW YEARS AGO , I NEVER EVEN HEARD OF RED DWARF. A FRIEND FROM WORK WOULD TELL ME ABOUT IT AND OF COURSE, IT WAS ALL ALIEN TO ME. WHEN THE DVD'S WERE BEING RELEASED, HE WAS ALL EXITED AND TELLING ME ABOUT IT EVEN MORE. HE ASKED ME IF I WANTED TO CHECK IT OUT, SO I SAID OK. I WATCHED SEASON 1, AND AT FIRST I THOUGHT, THIS IS KIND OF BORING, EVEN THOUGH IT HAD SOME GOOD BITS. AFTER HE BOUGHT SEASON 2, HE ASKED IF I WANTED TO BORROW THAT ONE, SO I THOUGHT WHY NOT, I'LL GIVE IT ANOTHER CHANCE. I WATCHED IT AND I LIKED IT BETTER THAN THE FIRST ONE. THEN HE LENT ME SEASON 3, THEN 4 AND SO ON AND SO ON. EACH SEASON JUST GOT BETTER AND BETTER. NOT LONG AFTER THAT, I BOUGHT MY OWN SET, I-VIII. I'VE WATCHED THEM THROUGH MANY TIMES AND THE MORE I WATCH THEM THE BETTER THEY GET! I TIP MY HAT TO GRANT/NAYLOR FOR CREATING A REALLY COOL SHOW AND TO THE WRITERS AND ACTORS/ACTRESSES WHO PERFORMED ON THE SHOW. WELL DONE!! ME AND MY FRIEND TALK ABOUT THE SHOW ALL THE TIME, AND HAVE WONDERED IF THERE WILL BE A SEASON 9 OR IF 'ONLY THE GOOD...' IS REALLY THE END. WHO KNOWS? TO THE NAY-SAYERS OF SEASONS VII AND VIII -- SMEG OFF!
It's hard to determine just what did Red Dwarf in. There are some spectacular gags in seasons 7&8, but the blokey humour had left. I agree that with the perfect storm idea;
Chris Barry was essential to the show, and they shouldn't have gone on without him.
Although Clare Grogan's Scottish Kochanski was more down to earth, she hardly appeared at all. Chloe Annette, however, portrayed her more like she is in the books, only without the gutsiness.
Lister turns into a lovesick puppy? Wrong!
Kryten becomes useless and needy? Likewise.
The Cat had hardly anything to do.
The general shift from 'four blokes in deep space' to 'space rom-com' didn't really work either.
Series 8 concentrated too much on individual character based comedy, and not enough on interaction based comedy. Too many new characters were one dimensional.
So that's what killed Red Dwarf. As for jumping the shark, I would say Tikka to Ride. It's properly epic, irreverent, and hilarious. That episode was everything Red Dwarf should be, and also the highest quality.
Chris Barry was essential to the show, and they shouldn't have gone on without him.
Although Clare Grogan's Scottish Kochanski was more down to earth, she hardly appeared at all. Chloe Annette, however, portrayed her more like she is in the books, only without the gutsiness.
Lister turns into a lovesick puppy? Wrong!
Kryten becomes useless and needy? Likewise.
The Cat had hardly anything to do.
The general shift from 'four blokes in deep space' to 'space rom-com' didn't really work either.
Series 8 concentrated too much on individual character based comedy, and not enough on interaction based comedy. Too many new characters were one dimensional.
So that's what killed Red Dwarf. As for jumping the shark, I would say Tikka to Ride. It's properly epic, irreverent, and hilarious. That episode was everything Red Dwarf should be, and also the highest quality.
The last season of this show did end abruptly and and they have been attempting to procure investors for a movie for almost a decade! A script has been in place for many years and all the actors involved have been ready to participate but funds have been a major issue. I dont think this show jumped the shark at all because it left all its viewers clammering for more! Every season the plot got switched up so you couldnt get bored of the situation, and the final seasons plotline left a lot of possibilities open to it. Hardcore Dwarf fans were so obsesses that the BBC and private publishers went ahead with comics, books, and even a radio show with the entire television cast that aired weekly on the BBC. How many shows in the past 40 years got there own radio show strictly out of demand? Hell, even Trekkers didnt get that lol I agree that its a show u either love or hate, but even the best shows have their nay sayers . Red Dwarf was a great a dnimaginative show where literally almost ANY situation was possible. I have always taken "jumping the shark" to be when a show exhausts its plotlines and turns to ridiculous sub plots to save it, or when it all together runs out of fresh ideas. I don't think this show did. You never knew who they would run into, where, or even when they would be, what strange abilities they might gain and the never ending mystery of what happened to the human race kept the show fresh and funny. Even SFX improved from season to season as the shows popularity grew. This show is sorely missed by myself as well as many others. I keep my fingers crossed that a miracle will bring the movie to the big screen but sadly many of the actors are getting older and soon the script will have to be changed to accomodate that. No one will buy a 45 year old lager swilling curry eating Lister (or at least I think they won't), and at best it wouldn't fly with the shows physical comedy as well as it action themes. I'm not sure who exactly decided this show jumped the shark but I am interested in knowing what they think was the turning point? Rimmer left for a season but then he was back and to be honest Rimmer is a beloved character but it was all part of keeping you watching. You knew Rimmer would be back, you just didnt know when. Next episode? Season Finale? the last episode of the show? You didnt know so you kept watching. A different actress playing Listers love interest from the actress who protrayed her through the first season was not a huge deal but I do see where people disapproved. The original actress had a kind of low class cockney thing happening and the new one was more refined. I can see why the producers wouldnt think the a high pitched voice with a cockney accent and a forgettable face would really add to the cast and plot. Im not sure if the refined, smart if not a little stuck up love interest was the best possbile choice but it added to the soup pot that was Red Dwarf. You never saw repeat character types. Everyone was unique.
Yes, season VII brought some MAJOR changes to the show behind the scenes with various writer and cast changes but none "ruined" the show. I think the entire cast and crew handled it as seamlessly as a production could. No wild ideas were introduced or special guest stars were utilized as many shows on the brink of disaster might resort to. They con't to deliver good plotlines, sound acting, and knee slapping laughter. This show had nothing to "recover" from after this season as some may think, it was ssimply another evolution in the show and despite the loss of one of the main writers the storyline was con't in the vision it had been created in.
Yes, season VII brought some MAJOR changes to the show behind the scenes with various writer and cast changes but none "ruined" the show. I think the entire cast and crew handled it as seamlessly as a production could. No wild ideas were introduced or special guest stars were utilized as many shows on the brink of disaster might resort to. They con't to deliver good plotlines, sound acting, and knee slapping laughter. This show had nothing to "recover" from after this season as some may think, it was ssimply another evolution in the show and despite the loss of one of the main writers the storyline was con't in the vision it had been created in.
The cliffhanger at the end of the last episode in season 8 left a lot to be desired. That ending frustrated the crap outta me! I like endings that make you think... but that was just TOO open. There needed to be a lot more explanation. If they have to leave the end of season 8 like that they at least need to make a movie or another series.
jumped the shark when kochanski came back.. game over. thanks for watching. time to read the books again.
Series 3 and 4 were the beginning of a very slow decline. There were some great episodes in those two series, but the comedy began to wane as the series became more about action and weird monsters. By series 5 and 6 there were too many recycled ideas (e.g. monsters that steal emotions) and too many cheap laughs (e.g. Dwayne Dibley). It was still OK but nowhere near as good as it had been.
But being in decline doesn't equate to having jumped - that happened in series 7. Rimmer was great and the other characters needed him to feed off, so his leaving did a lot of damage to the show. Kochanski wasn't funny and she changed the others too. Rob Grant's absence was significant too.
But being in decline doesn't equate to having jumped - that happened in series 7. Rimmer was great and the other characters needed him to feed off, so his leaving did a lot of damage to the show. Kochanski wasn't funny and she changed the others too. Rob Grant's absence was significant too.
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