Vote for why you think it jumped
Never Jumped
Exit...Stage Left (Sorkin and Schlamme)
The LEFT wing
Zoey is kidnapped
A Very Special...(Issac and Ishmael)
Shark Bytes
West Wing center-right? Kudos to your drug dealer. He's obviously got some superior product. Your whole post smacks of the smarmy and ignorant arrogance that comes from ivory-tower marxists. It's rather easy to refute your points but this is only a board about an obnoxious show that is thankfully long gone. Keep on huffin'...
The West Wing is not leftist- but center-right in its politics- the same general bias shared by the mainstream media (the reactionary right overt-propaganda machine of Fox news is another matter). Further this center-right mainstream is not presented as having made up its mind necessarily, but constrains debate within certain center-right parameters that the West Wing clearly fell within. The right wing reactionaries should just get over that the writers of the West Wing tended to be towards the left part of this center-right media consensus.
With the exception of the obviously idiotic portrayal of actual leftists (anti-globalization movement, for example), as an actual leftist I found the show quite enjoyable once I realized it was not about politics but was a monarchist drama (please note- monarchism is an ideology of the right- not the left). If only the people and the interest groups would allow the king, I mean president, to bring us enlightened policies, then the world would be saved- that was the ideology of the show.
The fanciful situations depicted in the West Wing were only loosely based in reality and have little to do with the political realities of the world. Taken as Shakespearean fantasy, the show is quite entertaining. But I guess that is a standard quality of right-wing (fascist) thinking- anything that does not explicitly agree with your narrow point of view must be propaganda aimed at destroying you.
The West Wing is not particularly good propaganda, but it was consistently well written and entertaining, as long as everyone remembers it took place in a center-right fantasy world where your eight grade civics book is an accurate and complete picture of the world.
With the exception of the obviously idiotic portrayal of actual leftists (anti-globalization movement, for example), as an actual leftist I found the show quite enjoyable once I realized it was not about politics but was a monarchist drama (please note- monarchism is an ideology of the right- not the left). If only the people and the interest groups would allow the king, I mean president, to bring us enlightened policies, then the world would be saved- that was the ideology of the show.
The fanciful situations depicted in the West Wing were only loosely based in reality and have little to do with the political realities of the world. Taken as Shakespearean fantasy, the show is quite entertaining. But I guess that is a standard quality of right-wing (fascist) thinking- anything that does not explicitly agree with your narrow point of view must be propaganda aimed at destroying you.
The West Wing is not particularly good propaganda, but it was consistently well written and entertaining, as long as everyone remembers it took place in a center-right fantasy world where your eight grade civics book is an accurate and complete picture of the world.
Emily,
Interesting post. Other than agreeing with him I have no right to speak for Brian, but I´ll add my own thoughts.
That WW is drama and followed the conventions thereof is not questioned. But that by definition it is a show about politics vaults it out of the realm of art, the abstracting of the human condition in search of insights about it, and into reality itself, as an actor in that reality, i.e. propaganda. While it is axiomatic to say that everything is biased, as you say of MASH etc., propaganda is organized bias for the purpose of altering an outcome. I do not object to a TV show injecting itself into politics. That´s free expression. What I do object to is the pervasive deceit that these shows propagate and the leftist monoculture that the entertainment industry and the "news" industry, which have merged, have become. It is one thing to write a drama that says "We believe this..." and present an honest exploration of the issue. It is quite another to write a drama which ignores the reality of the issue by lying and omission and then have a news report on a supposedly hard news source use exactly the same narrative. This is the device of Orwellian totalitarianism, for all dissenting point of view are written out of existence. There are tons of examples of this.
No, WW did not just try "to make some meaningful sense out of" government or politics. It had already made up its mind, and tried to psychologically coerce their point of view onto others, especially young people. All of these shows are not just entertainment. They are an attempt at a cultural coup. Ripped-from-the-Headlines, indeed.
Interesting post. Other than agreeing with him I have no right to speak for Brian, but I´ll add my own thoughts.
That WW is drama and followed the conventions thereof is not questioned. But that by definition it is a show about politics vaults it out of the realm of art, the abstracting of the human condition in search of insights about it, and into reality itself, as an actor in that reality, i.e. propaganda. While it is axiomatic to say that everything is biased, as you say of MASH etc., propaganda is organized bias for the purpose of altering an outcome. I do not object to a TV show injecting itself into politics. That´s free expression. What I do object to is the pervasive deceit that these shows propagate and the leftist monoculture that the entertainment industry and the "news" industry, which have merged, have become. It is one thing to write a drama that says "We believe this..." and present an honest exploration of the issue. It is quite another to write a drama which ignores the reality of the issue by lying and omission and then have a news report on a supposedly hard news source use exactly the same narrative. This is the device of Orwellian totalitarianism, for all dissenting point of view are written out of existence. There are tons of examples of this.
No, WW did not just try "to make some meaningful sense out of" government or politics. It had already made up its mind, and tried to psychologically coerce their point of view onto others, especially young people. All of these shows are not just entertainment. They are an attempt at a cultural coup. Ripped-from-the-Headlines, indeed.
And a note to Brian Armstrong:
Yeah, it's easy to find people to agree with you. It's not just a TV show, you're right. But Brian, here's the hard part, neither is it just about the 'country and the world' as you say. Here's where it's hard to understand. The West Wing is a, er, show that has to observe the tenets, conventions, what you will, of the television genre.It must have believable characters but to succeed really well, it must have over-the-top characters. Hence your point about Jed Bartlett/Martin Sheen as Richard III. How over the top can you get and a Shakespearean character at that. The bunch of bigots,and assorted characters you refer to, they must work off of the Richard III, and sometimes though not very often, they might come off better than the benevolent dictator. Yes this all sounds cliched but think of the alternative - if this were real life? The characters would meander aimlessly and in a painfully boring way throughout an equally aimlessly boring landscape uttering ridiculously banal and mundane things so much so that we couldn't stomach the inanity of it. You hit one nail on the head, Brian, government should not be glorified but the West Wing (the show not the actual White House) does not glorify government, it tries to make some meaningful sense out of it. Perhaps it preaches, yes, and perhaps it goes too far in its idealism, but there is another way in which I have to disagree with you, Brian, there is not one tv show out there that isn't biased one way or another, West Wing included. You bet it's biased. There isn't a single form of art, whether tv, theatre, films, fiction, painting that isn't biased. All artists make a decision about what 'story' to tell and how to tell it. Aaron Sorkin had his agenda. The difference is in how hard he beats us over the head with it. Sometimes it's subtle, other times not. Remember All in the Family? Biased. MASH? Biased.
But enuff from me. Your turn
Yeah, it's easy to find people to agree with you. It's not just a TV show, you're right. But Brian, here's the hard part, neither is it just about the 'country and the world' as you say. Here's where it's hard to understand. The West Wing is a, er, show that has to observe the tenets, conventions, what you will, of the television genre.It must have believable characters but to succeed really well, it must have over-the-top characters. Hence your point about Jed Bartlett/Martin Sheen as Richard III. How over the top can you get and a Shakespearean character at that. The bunch of bigots,and assorted characters you refer to, they must work off of the Richard III, and sometimes though not very often, they might come off better than the benevolent dictator. Yes this all sounds cliched but think of the alternative - if this were real life? The characters would meander aimlessly and in a painfully boring way throughout an equally aimlessly boring landscape uttering ridiculously banal and mundane things so much so that we couldn't stomach the inanity of it. You hit one nail on the head, Brian, government should not be glorified but the West Wing (the show not the actual White House) does not glorify government, it tries to make some meaningful sense out of it. Perhaps it preaches, yes, and perhaps it goes too far in its idealism, but there is another way in which I have to disagree with you, Brian, there is not one tv show out there that isn't biased one way or another, West Wing included. You bet it's biased. There isn't a single form of art, whether tv, theatre, films, fiction, painting that isn't biased. All artists make a decision about what 'story' to tell and how to tell it. Aaron Sorkin had his agenda. The difference is in how hard he beats us over the head with it. Sometimes it's subtle, other times not. Remember All in the Family? Biased. MASH? Biased.
But enuff from me. Your turn
Thank you, Brian Armstrong, for providing a (real) historical perspective and nailing this show down exactly for what it was. These people are indeed Jacobins and this show, like many others, was intended from the beginning to be a leftwing mouthpiece. Anyone who says that it´s "just entertainment" is either naive or disingenuous. Remember when ABC put out Commander in Chief just when Hillary was getting her motor running? I´m sure it was just a coincidence. Just watch these shows and compare with current events. Watch who they portray as the saints and heroes and as the villians and then watch CNN or read the NYTimes and you´ll see the same cast of characters. "Entertainment" and "News" are pulling in the same direction. As far away from actual reality as possible.
Luego de X-Files y The West Wing son simplemente las mejores series de la televisión. Excelentes.
X-Files and The West Wing are the best TV shows. Excellents!!!
X-Files and The West Wing are the best TV shows. Excellents!!!
I watched the complete 45 DVD set, from start to finish. I just completed the final episode of Season 7 this evening. I had been under the impression that this show jumped in Season 5, but I was mistaken. The West Wing made it to the end, finished the story, tied up the loose ends and never jumped.
Before I write this, I already know that the show's fans are going to defend it as "just a TV SHOW!" as if it's not about the actual US presidency. Well save it; if you had a show about a fictitious jolly gang of pedophiles, then I'm sure you wouldn't apply the same logic-- and with this show, we're talking about the entire country and world here, not a few kids.
I don't think of benevolent dictatorship as an improvement of current politics, so much as a pretentious lie that's as old as Ceasar and as honest as Adolf.
Such representations were the common defense of aristocracy, i.e rule by the power-elite who supposedly knew better what was good for everyone; sadly, the self-believing "best and brightest" commonly aspire to a return to such jungle-despotism-- as do the egocentric creators of this series, seething with arrogance and vainglory that Jefferson prayed would never match what he saw in France.
Indeed, every line voiced by Martin Sheen seems to echo with "Let them eat cake."
P.S. Is there a Guillotine in the house? :D
Martin Sheen seems to be playing King George III in this show, and seems to be written by his court-historians about how wise and superior the king and his court are over the rest of the world; meanwhile all his opponents are portrayed like the American colonists.
It's really sad when Hollywood glorifies government; of course this is nothing new, but it takes the concept to new levels-- the worst case in history, for a 7-year run showing how the ruler is perfect while all who disagree with "his absolute majesty" are cast as evil, closed-minded bigots and idiots. This just sets a new low for Hollywood being preachy, pretentious and condescending, by presuming the world's most powerful office and telling everyone how the world SHOULD be run. However if a US president ever acts like this, I'll personally create a clone-army from the DNA of John Wilkes Booth, and splice in the genes of Lee Harvey Oswald and John Hinckley Jr.
I don't think of benevolent dictatorship as an improvement of current politics, so much as a pretentious lie that's as old as Ceasar and as honest as Adolf.
Such representations were the common defense of aristocracy, i.e rule by the power-elite who supposedly knew better what was good for everyone; sadly, the self-believing "best and brightest" commonly aspire to a return to such jungle-despotism-- as do the egocentric creators of this series, seething with arrogance and vainglory that Jefferson prayed would never match what he saw in France.
Indeed, every line voiced by Martin Sheen seems to echo with "Let them eat cake."
P.S. Is there a Guillotine in the house? :D
Martin Sheen seems to be playing King George III in this show, and seems to be written by his court-historians about how wise and superior the king and his court are over the rest of the world; meanwhile all his opponents are portrayed like the American colonists.
It's really sad when Hollywood glorifies government; of course this is nothing new, but it takes the concept to new levels-- the worst case in history, for a 7-year run showing how the ruler is perfect while all who disagree with "his absolute majesty" are cast as evil, closed-minded bigots and idiots. This just sets a new low for Hollywood being preachy, pretentious and condescending, by presuming the world's most powerful office and telling everyone how the world SHOULD be run. However if a US president ever acts like this, I'll personally create a clone-army from the DNA of John Wilkes Booth, and splice in the genes of Lee Harvey Oswald and John Hinckley Jr.
Interesting show that never jumped..
I used to have a joke about this show about 8 years ago. I used to say that instead of being called "The West Wing", that it should be called "Appocalypse Now....Now..."
Some people got it, some people didn't..
I used to have a joke about this show about 8 years ago. I used to say that instead of being called "The West Wing", that it should be called "Appocalypse Now....Now..."
Some people got it, some people didn't..
Ok, I owe an apology to the post Sorkin West Wing writers, don't get me wrong, you're dialogue still sucks in comparison to Sorkin, and it still seems like pod people had taken over some of the long time characters.
But, I was very critical of the election storyline of Matt Santos vs Arnold Vinick. I found the idea of a young, minority congressman running and winning the nomination from not only the current vice president, but a former vice president as well.
And if that plot line left me cold, I was absolutely flabbergasted at the fairy tale of an old, moderate republican winning the GOP nomination, despite the fact that the right wing of the party hates him.
I felt I was politically savvy enough to scoff at these ludicrous fantasies of lazy screenwriters.
Well, pass the hot sauce, it's time for me to eat some crow. Hillary might still pull out a miracle, but right now it looks like a young, minority candidate, Obama, is going to be the democratic nominee, defeating a former vice presidential running mate, and a former first lady...really, let's face it, the former co-president.
And of course, the 71 year old McCain has the republican nomination locked up, even though he's fairly moderate on several issues, and right wing commentators hate him.
Good job writers, I wasn't going to buy any of the non Sorkin DVD seasons, but I will now be buying the ones that focus on the campaign to replace Bartlet, those episodes take on a whole new light now.
But, I was very critical of the election storyline of Matt Santos vs Arnold Vinick. I found the idea of a young, minority congressman running and winning the nomination from not only the current vice president, but a former vice president as well.
And if that plot line left me cold, I was absolutely flabbergasted at the fairy tale of an old, moderate republican winning the GOP nomination, despite the fact that the right wing of the party hates him.
I felt I was politically savvy enough to scoff at these ludicrous fantasies of lazy screenwriters.
Well, pass the hot sauce, it's time for me to eat some crow. Hillary might still pull out a miracle, but right now it looks like a young, minority candidate, Obama, is going to be the democratic nominee, defeating a former vice presidential running mate, and a former first lady...really, let's face it, the former co-president.
And of course, the 71 year old McCain has the republican nomination locked up, even though he's fairly moderate on several issues, and right wing commentators hate him.
Good job writers, I wasn't going to buy any of the non Sorkin DVD seasons, but I will now be buying the ones that focus on the campaign to replace Bartlet, those episodes take on a whole new light now.
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